Dr.
Graves:
Intellectual hedonism is the disguise of a new kind of
Christianity or religion to which they are trying to draw converts
and it is mystical, now there is something to this phenomena. But
not what transcendental mediators are selling. This phenomenon is a
terrible interesting one, but I believe that the way it is operating
today it is just another form of the puritan ethic. This is the same
old thing coming around over and over again: discipline. For
centuries we’ve been going through this, not the way it’s being
practiced, not the way, It is being carried on in public.
Let me illustrate it in this manner. What one of the
evidences within the theoretical system of the total personality is
insatiability; can’t get enough of something. A person deeply
involved in transcendental meditation can’t get enough of two
things: 1) of the TM experience and
2) he must be active, active all the time. This says it is a
total state. This is why I say it is intellectual hedonism. And
listen to what the man says and put it down on paper and then ask
yourself afterwards – what was this that I listened to? I listen
to him once. I couldn’t tell what the man was saying. He was just
playing with words. When the man says Transcendental Meditation has
the answers to the problems of the universe. This is just false
science. He says “Just listen to me!” – and he talks for an
hour and says nothing. It’s all solved. You’ll see the solution.
That’s an impractical being. I say that it’s intellectual
hedonism!
Question:
What about problem solving? The problems that are, let’s
say, in the South Sea and Asian areas? They have pressures and
environmental problems and their lifestyles are so different?
Dr.
Graves:
Not difficult at all when you get the full feeling for the
concepts which are in the paper: Levels of Existence: An Open
Systems Theory of Values, Fall, 1970, Journal of Humanistic
Psychology . . . . Concepts of Thema and Schema. At
a particular level of existence any human being, no matter what the
circumstances in which they are living, will develop the same THEMA
for existence that they are centralized in. But depending upon the
particular characteristics of the world in which they are living,
and the particular characterization of their individual minds, that
is, both N and O systems can vary in particular even though they are
very much alike in general. You can have the same THEMA of existence
with very, very different SCHEMATIC forms
. . . and the most outstanding example that I can give you is
this. When referring to THEMA and SCHEMA – this is the only
difference between the theoretical point of view of orthodox
Christianity and orthodox Communism. They are the same thing. They
are both sacrifice/deny self to get later systems. Yet,
SCHEMATICALLY they are very, very different. This is an aspect of
thinking which one has to be kept in mind all the time. The refined
Hindus and the Pakistanis are at war with one another. General
Psychology, Clinical Psychology, Social Psychology, and my work have
shown that the greatest battles always exist between people whose
thinking is closest together. There is no difference between a
Pakistani and a Hindu; THEMATICALLY. They are the same psychological
human being.
Question:
When you talk about civilizations around the world and the
problems that they have tosolve, how does this related to individual
health?
Dr.
Graves:
Remember, I have a dual concept of health. It depends on
whether you have an alterably closed or unalterably closed person. I
don’t want an error in understanding this. I want, however, to
emphasize a different point when I talk about problem solving. What
man cannot stand is to solve his problems. So, in the solution of
the problems he now has, he creates a new set of problems to be
solved. As he solves the problems A - he create problems B and as he
solves problems B - he creates problems C. Now, what is the major
problem the H-U person has according to my data? Can anyone
extrapolate and get it? His major problem is - how do you live when
you have no problems? That’s his major problem! How do you live
when you have no problems? That has to be a problem!
Question:
How can you determine the true personality characteristics of
a C-P person?
Dr.
Graves:
The theory says that the only person who would give you a
pure C-P picture is a very closed C-P. You only get centralized data
of a pure level nature from a solid closed level person. This
doesn’t happen very often since most people are not that closed.
They may be at many different levels depending upon the situation.
[Presentation
ends]
Transcription
and notes by William R. Lee