And so on down the line. In any concept you are asking me how
does he believe? How does he think about this or about that? A person
deeply centralized in the D-Q system will understand the concept of
profit. He will believe that man should work in order to profit. A man
in the E-R system will believe in profit (and please don’t be
offended by the language I am using to try and describe the system).
They both think of profit but they think of it in different ways and
this is what we’re trying to teach.
Question:
Isn’t it true that in any religious group you will probably
find a wide range of differences in beliefs about God and such as
within any of the Protestant denominations?
Dr.
Graves:
I have some fine liberal Unitarians running right from D-Q to
H-U . . and man!, the difference in those Unitarians is out of this
world. They just aren’t anymore like each other.
Question:
Whether some of those who put on a good show do this, it
can’t be this way. I had a roommate once who I knew quite well. I
knew what he was like, yet, he was marrying a gal who was a Catholic
and he was going to convert and I said, “How can you do this?”
“Well, man you know! There are bad Catholics as well as good
Catholics. If that’s what they want, I’ll go through the motions.
Why let that stand in my way?”
Dr.
Graves:
Another way of looking at this issue, is to see the atheist
system, so typified by absolutistic thinking. Well, within this system
for explaining human behavior, a table pounding atheist is absolutely
the same as a hell-fire and damnation religious person. They are both
absolutistic as all get out. They are both the same psychological
beings and the interesting thing here is that every once in awhile,
and I don’t understand this process yet, the dynamics change and the
conflicts change. The atheist becomes a hell-fire and damnation
creature, and the hell-fire and damnation creature becomes the atheist
. . . it just flip-flops.
This is something that you have to watch very carefully and it
has probably gotten me into more difficulty than anything else. I have
a lot of students, a lot of people, who take this view, who are
convinced that once they get acquainted with this theory that their
thinking is at the H-U level, that it is centralized there. But you
know, most of them, who studied in the past, are now in Bible college.
I’ve got two this year that I’ll guarantee you that they’ll be
in Bible college next year. They don’t know it but actually down
deep . . . they are in D-Q.
Question:
There is a link here that ties together a couple of things. You
said, for example, that somebody was missing the boat or they were
having a hard time. You said that those who were in consciousness
raising were those who had lost their way in the transition from E-R
to F-S. I asked you a while back about the Jesus freaks and you said
something about, related to religion, that most of them can’t make
it on their way to E-R. They’re lost along the way, but on the way
in the transition, one of the devices is to search past mechanisms.
They tend to settle down and close down as they are lost on their way
from D-Q to E-R. Are they
people who close down or ones who get into this and then after awhile
see that it doesn’t work for them and then they go on? Are their
ways of dealing with these people?
Dr.
Graves:
My information data says this: that we all search but if in our
searching we go from this to this to this, go from drugs to religion
to something else and the like . . . that this is the road to closure.
. . to closing down, never making the transition. The person
just can’t get over the hump and move on to the next thing.