From the Historical Collection of the work of Dr. Clare W. Graves
William R. Lee                                                            - presentations, papers, recorded transcripts, notes -                                                             February 2002
Seminar on Levels of Human Existence, Washington School of Psychiatry, October, 1971


            

            Well, essentially, that which differentiates the D-Q system, specifically from all the other systems, is the belief that we are controlled by a divine being, a divine fixture- creature-being. A person will say, for example, that in the long run anything that happens in his world will be in line with the master plan of God. The person in the D-Q system apparently has this conception of the universe. An all-powerful figure, variously named, all powerful something or other, planned the universe, laid down the laws of the universe and watches second by second as the day and hours go by as to whether or not the divine plan laid down is being followed. Then he delivers either reward or punishment on the spot  or tacks this up on a score sheet to ultimately decide whether the person shall be rewarded or punished. To elicit this kind of information you have to develop items that state such a thing as: “I believe that to attain my goals, it is only necessary for me to live as God would have me to live” or “the dictates of ones’ religion should be followed with trusting vigilance” or “there are some things which God will never permit man to know.” These are the kinds of items that will cause the person centralized in the D-Q system to say it is so. Another way of looking at it is . . . if the person you ask a question to . . .  is in the D-Q system “What do you believe about religion?” you will get answers like the above.

 

            Let me just show you data which indicates how differently the people in the various systems think. Using as a referent here the concept of sin as a means of seeing into how a person thinks religiously. You get the picture that in the D-Q system there is the idea of His power, breaking the commandments of God. Sin is a means of offending God. It is innate in man because man cannot escape it and God forgives us if we are sorry. Everyone sins and no ones sin is greater than another’s. I have tried to put a clear definition on the word or concept of sin. It isn’t easy to do. There is a great difference here between the true believer and the atheist. There are those who believe that sin is not necessary for human behavior. There is underneath the idea that there isn’t any such thing as sin. . . but that there are people who do believe in sin. You get a picture that I mentioned before that in the D-Q system there is the idea of this power . . .that sin is breaking the commandments of God.

 

            You have that different idea and you pick it up and you ask them what they think about marriage. The D-Q will tend to talk about marriage in terms of its having a religious factor in it and you will tend to see an idealization of marriage. “Marriage is a union for life.” “It is an important part of making life a success.” “Marriage is a union of two people who have given themselves completely to each other in the eyes of God.” “Marriage is a union based on religious law and love and understanding and requires a permanency in each case.” 

 

Question   Do the E-R and G-T systems tend to idealize marriage in a religious sense?

 

Dr. Graves:    Remember that when we talked about sin there was a negation in the E-R system of the idea of sin. We should find this negation manifesting itself in the E-R system when a person talks about marriage. Marriage is not in any respect a sacred institution. The rites of marriage are a vestigial barbarism and should not be required. Marriage is for other people. I could never stand it unless I could find my ideal woman that I’m sure doesn’t exist. Marriage is being bound to another person until death and is too artificial, too much regulated and too constricted. I object to the idea of the state regulating the marriage code since I conceive that marriage is a private and personal relationship between two people suited to share and understand one-another’s life. This should give you a feeling for how many young people in this world today are not as high up the levels of existence as they think they are because this is indeed their concept of marriage. . . a tremendous number of them. 

 

            Now you get the same inspiring enthusiasm when G-T is talking about marriage. A must meaningful relationship that should be valued so highly that it is not taken for granted and can be a blessing. It is to be thought, depending on those comprising it, that the idea of marriage is good but you don’t get the spiritual basis, the religious basis, of marriage. In the G-T . . . marriage is really no profession, no heaven . . . . as the world is, I guess that it has to be. Not a negation of it but a simple statement of fact is what you get from G-T. Marriage, I guess, is that biological situation for two people in love in our society as our class society is today. Marriage – it sure is working hard at it – it is sharing – it is becoming one as much as possible but it is never losing site of the other person and it is not the easiest thing in this world to come by.  

                                                                                                                                                                       

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