From the Historical Collection of the work of Dr. Clare W. Graves
William R. Lee                                                            - presentations, papers, recorded transcripts, notes -                                                             February 2002
Seminar on Levels of Human Existence, Washington School of Psychiatry, October, 1971


  

        

Now, I hypothesized this a long time ago. I now have a four page bibliography which supports my contention. {This particular bibliography is available on the www.clarewgraves.com website: Bibliography in Support of Existence of Qualitatively Different Dynamic Neurological Systems, August, 1969.} The data is in the literature that this is the truth and that these systems are there. They are different systems, and not only because of the way my people operated when they said:

 

            - He learns in one way in system N.

            - He learns in another way in system O.

            - He learns in another way in system P.

   

            - These studies, and my own work, I believe now show that the learning process in the brain . . . .

 

            In – the N system the learning is habituation.

            In – the O system the learning is Pavlovian conditioning.

            In – the P system the learning is Operant or instrumental conditioning.

            In – the Q system the learning is Avoidance conditioning.

            In – the R system the learning is Expectancy learning.

In – the S system the learning is the Operational learning process

             . . .  that Bandura writes so much about at the present time, for example.

 

            In other words, we learn differently in each system. We are equipped by nature to learn this way when the system is on and dominant . . . and not that way.

 

            When you think in terms of therapy, if the P system is running the organism and it is alert to learning only through operant conditioning, what are we doing fiddling around with Freudian therapy when we have that kind of a person? If you have the Q system dominant what are we doing fiddling around with Skinner when we have Freudian techniques? Skinner is awfully good for low level behavior but don’t fiddle around with Skinner at the higher levels.

 

            We’ve got to get this information together somehow. If we can ever get this information teased out we are going to be on our way to what I would call the constructive and humanistic control of human behavior. Now, don’t misunderstand me as far as Skinner is concerned. I’m not out to get Skinner. I just have a very different kind of ability to work with and bring about change in human behavior then that which Skinner brings forth in Beyond Freedom and Dignity.

 

            The systems, which I think you’ll find, and they are right here on this list, show that in the O system for example, that which it responds to is variation within the same sensory modality. If you want to activate the O system, you increase light or decrease light, increase or decrease sound, but you would never use a pattern of lights or a pattern of sounds or a pattern of sound and light together because that will activate the P system but won’t turn on the O system.

 

            Different stimuli turn on different systems. You can place electrodes in the brain where the centrality of these systems are. If you put a certain kind of stimulus in there you will get out a certain kind of activity but if you put another kind of stimulus in there you will not get that activity.

 

            Now. . .  this you see, is one part of the picture, and we are trying to see what the brain is like. The brain is a structural system or a functional system in which a bunch of structures or functions or whatever they are, are arranged in a system. I am trying to get away from the idea that somewhere in the brain lies in-toto the N system. This simply is not so. There is some kind of central point apparently and the neural system ramifies out through the rest of the brain in somehow or another. (see Figure 4}  And functionally there is an N system and an O system and a P system and a Q system and an R system and an S system which handles the data of this new conception of healthy personality. I had never run into anything like this before and no one else had run into it either and now it appeared in my data. I had to open up this brain and say; ”Look . . . there are awful lot of neural networks and an awful lot of permutations and combinations that take place. Therefore, this is very possibly an open-ended system.” 

   

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