Dr.
Graves:
I can’t say anything about a person on the basis of his
being a drug user. I’d want to know what the central level of
operation was of this particular the drug user. And once knowing
that could say that his center of operation is here I am going to
use these methods and if he is here I am going to use other methods.
Just as I said here, you can commit suicide for many different
reasons. You can take drugs for many different reasons.
My data
says that the first question you have to ask yourself after all is
whether or not the subject you are working with is open or closed.
If
the subject is closed - then the teacher or the supervisor or the
trainer or the coach or whatever, should be at the same level as the
subject, as the person.
If
the subject is open – then the teacher, supervisor, trainer, coach
should be one level in advance of that person.
So, we feel,
those who are working on this at this time, that the biggest problem
in application at the present time is really being able to come up
with a differentiation between closure and not-closure and the
degree. This is a very important thing.
If
you could do that then the evidence that the closed works well with
a person who thinks the same way is very clear.
If
the person is closed then it is preferable that the person working
with him should be closed also.
The
evidence that the open works well with the person who is one step
ahead of him is very clear.
Question:
Does this follow through with any helping relationship be it
a teacher or a therapist? Can a person utilize his knowledge knowing
how the levels operate?
Dr.
Graves:
If he is operating at a higher level than the person, he can
do this but he will not prefer to do this, and I don’t recommend
it over a long period of time. A person who is operating at the C-P
level will know what he has to do in order to operate with a person
who is at the D-Q level in an open state of affairs and trying to
move. But it will gnaw at the guts of the person who is centralized
at the G-T level to have to do this over and over any period of
time. So, if you’re in a school, in a clinic, in an organization
and you have this man operating at, centralized at the G-T level,
and you know that the group of students, patients or employees need
to be managed in the D-Q fashion then you’d better go out and hire
someone who fits and operates in that manner.
Question:
From your own data, do you have any information, any kind of
a curve that states what percentage of any population is located at
each level?
Dr.
Graves:
I have no data other than this. In the beginning of my
studies in 1952, at the bottom of the scale I had about 34% of my
production coming out of D-Q level, and I had somewhere from 6 to
10% of my production coming out at the G-T level and that that has
now reversed itself in the college situation.
Question:
Are you using the same criteria now or has your theory
evolved to the point that are you measuring different
characteristics?
Dr.
Graves:
No, there is no change here. All I’m talking about is if I
take a group of people today and have them write their conceptions
of healthy personality, how would they be classified at the present
time and how many would be classify themselves as deny-self and how
many would classify themselves as express-self. That’s all I’m
saying here.
Now, in the last run through that I made, I had 35% of the
conceptions who had a G-T flavor and only about 9% at the D-Q level.
In other words, the D-Q way of life is almost gone in this society.
That is what I would say.